Bootle Underground lake

[n3ttl3]

Hi all

We were told in the juniors (by Mr Mawhinney) that there was an underground lake that was underneath (natch) Well lane and Water Street. He said that the water was said to rival the poshest bottled water at that time and was marketed as 'Bootle Water'.

Has anyone been (or know someone that has) down there and seen this lake? is it still there? Can you get down there? I have wanted to know this for donkey's years but not been able to find out. Anyone got any clues ?

Thanks

Annette

[red ron]

Hello Annette, I know a bit about the lake under Well Lane, The access to it was in the yard of the engineering firm, I think it is Campbell and Isherwood. ( Don't quote me on that ). I worked for the council highways for 30 years and every so often the surveyors would ask for a man to help them to survey the cavern. They would go down to the well ( not sure how, think it was by ladder ) and use a boat that was always down there and take samples and examine the roof of the cavern by torches. That is all I know from talking to mates who have been asked to help. The waterworks was built to draw the water from there and stood in Waterworks Street, I believe the well is still there and is pure water, even now, and lies under the entire surrounding area of Well Lane. I hope to hear more on this subject on this site. Regards, Ron.

[n3ttl3]

Hi Ron

Thanks for that, I really thought I was going wappy because everytime I mentioned the lake others looked at me as if I was a sixpence short of a shilling!

Hope someone else can come forward with information too!

Annette

[red ron]

hi again Annette, it is a fact that the well / lake is still there, and I think it was planned to use it as an emergency water supply in the war. I believe a call to the surveyors office in Balliol House may yield more information for you. I have known about the well since I was a child. My dad was a member of the civil defence and I think it was their business to know about it, and he told me of it. I imagine anybody from the old Bootle Village area will tell you more.
Best wishes, Ron.

[RonKing]

Wasn't the lake linked somehow to the Rimrose Brook which runs through the same area underground?
Ron

[henry]

when i worked in the Mellanear there was a proper well with a bucket and the water was freezing cold and clear and was the most refreshing drink i ever tasted and the well was very deep

[Mack]

Hi

We interviewed Sands Johnson from the family who established Johnsons the Cleaners and he talked about the underground lake in Bootle being vital for the location of the factory.

Here is a quote from his audio interview...

"The reason that our business is where it is , is that directly underneath Mildmay Road was a very clear stream, so we drew all the water for the dyeing" - Sands Johnson.

This is a great audio interview where he also talks about the history of Johnsons the Cleaners, remembering that they were also a dye works.

Here is the link below to it...

http://www.bootlehistory.com/bootle_audio.html

Click on Sands Johnson's photo to listen to the full audio interview. Make sure your speakers are turned on.... it lasts for 8 minutes.

Mack

[Jan]

Hi All,

I have been trying to find out about the well/ lake in Bootle, I know that Bootle's water was so pure, and supplied Liverpool with water.

Here are a couple of snippets from the a2a website, I am trying to find out more!

Deeds and Conveyances

BOOTLE-CUM-LINACRE

FILE [no title] - ref. DDK/491/6 - date: 1819: 30th April
[from Scope and Content] Statement of the Liverpool (Bootle) Water Works.
[Access Conditions] Some of these records are not held at Lancashire Record Office

FILE [no title] - ref. DDK/503/5/1 - date: 1875: 6th Mar
[Access Conditions] Record(s) not held at Lancashire Record Office
[from Scope and Content] Dr. Brown's report on Bootle Water.

These records are under The Stanleys of Knowsley (Earls of Derby). They were at (as mentioned above) Lancs Records Office, but are no longer there, I think all the records are now back at Knowsley Hall.


Jan

[Jan]

These records are at Lancashire Records Office in Bow Lane Preston.

Creator(s):
Liverpool Corporation Waterworks


FILE - Explanatory plan of Bootle Springs of the Bootle Waterworks Company showing the works as in 1800, with nineteenth century developments carried out by the Liverpool Corporation Water Works - ref. DDX271/1 - date: Undated

Jan

[Jan]

This may not mean much at the moment, but may hold clues!

Litherland - ref. DDM 38

FILE - Grant - ref. DDM 38/2 - date: n.d
[from Scope and Content] Alan son of Richard, late of Letherlond, to Richard late son of Symon of Enys - properties in Letherlond lying in divers places, viz. a land lying in the field called Gorsticroft between land of Robert Ballard and of William Lumbard, extending lengthwise from the dike to the stream which runs between Litherlond and Linacre; another land called Cleyland lying between land of Adam the Doomsman and of the said William in Horhul extending lengthwise from the way called Bradegate towards the east; a third land called Mucklond, lying between land of Richard son of William and of Adam son of Gilbert, extending lengthwise from the way called Bradegate as far as the field called Chefield - paying yearly 3d. Witn.: Robert of Molineus, Maurice of Thorinton, Jordan of Derley, Adam the Doomsman, William of Euuntre, William of Horhul, Adam Ballard, Robert his son, William of Enys, Richard the chaplain of Hutton

[henry]

a old thread on bootle lake

[georgewiliam]

In Derby Park there was a loop off the lake which was fed by spring water. You could see the water welling up crystal clear---in fact, I collected some in my jam jar and drank it---no problem.

[kenglos]

Hi in my youth I remember a news paper article about this lake it had a artist drawing showing it going right up to Liverpool in the sand stone rock,I don't remember the year or the name of the paper ,but it was about a lake that had been discovered down a well shaft in Bootle most likely 1940/50s, found this it might be the same lake ken
http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100 ... _page.html

[daveowe]

As a former engineer with (North West Water) United Utilities can explain the myths regarding underground lakes. Surface rainwater seeps through soil and eventually becomes trapped in the hollow rock and sandstone layers deep down, in some situations they are also filled by brooks and streams coming down from higher ground. In some cases they eventually become under pressure and cause to rise at locations away from the source of the water which give rise to springs. Water will always follow the least obstructed route not neccessary the shortest route!

The hollow cavitys the waters collect in are called aquafers, think of the large underground caves that potholers go in search of. Around Merseyside there are many, Aubrey St, water tower also has a bore well, Springfield in Aughton there is a bore well, there was a bore well which served Walton Hospital laundry and boiler house., Dunlops Walton, Johnsons as previous mentioned, Tate and Lyle had one, they all bored into these cavities to extract water. The Merseyrail tunnels have to pump away a vast amount of water now the industries around the docklands are no longer tapping into the water supplies other wise the tunnels would be flooded. Some of the shafts go down to a depth of 200ft, before the water is reached and then is pumped up through submersible pumps. These supplies are used in addition to the water from the River Dee which is collected/stored in underground resevoirs at Prescot to serve Merseyside. Same at Bickerstaffe, Ormskirk and Elmers Green, Skelmersdale.

daveowe

[para alpha]

Hi all

We were told in the juniors (by Mr Mawhinney) that there was an underground lake that was underneath (natch) Well lane and Water Street. He said that the water was said to rival the poshest bottled water at that time and was marketed as 'Bootle Water'.

Has anyone been (or know someone that has) down there and seen this lake? is it still there? Can you get down there? I have wanted to know this for donkey's years but not been able to find out. Anyone got any clues ?

Thanks

Annette

There is a name I haven't heard in a long time! anyone know what happened to this chap? He was my head teacher a long time ago?

I had a mate who worked in the foundry in Well Lane! There was a shaft there and from time to time people used to turn up with dry suits and go for a look... I was never told if they found anything?

[Shaun]

Hey that name also rings a bell with me as well.. What school was that? I went to St Marys and Hillside..

I'm glad I found this as this was the reason I ended up coming to this site.. I was only chatting with someone about a Bootle lake tale I'd heard as a kid and just wanted confirmation. I remember my mum always telling me that there used to be a lake in Derby Park but it disappeared.. What happened to it anyway?

Can't believe noone is taking advantage of a clear and pure water supply.. Sod this Evian stuff!!!!

[ron waters]

SHAUN Derby Park had a big lake and many years ago people used to sail thier model boats on it , there was a bridge that seperated it from another smaller one , I am sure somewhere on the site there are photos of it . Paul I used to live on the corner of Well Lane as a kid , there was also a little street called Spring Grove , and we had Waterworks Street and Brookhill Road .
Ron

[BOBHAMO]

hi shawn welcome to the site heres a pic of derby park lake

[Anne Winter]

Hey that name also rings a bell with me as well.. What school was that? I went to St Marys and Hillside..

I'm glad I found this as this was the reason I ended up coming to this site.. I was only chatting with someone about a Bootle lake tale I'd heard as a kid and just wanted confirmation. I remember my mum always telling me that there used to be a lake in Derby Park but it disappeared.. What happened to it anyway?

Can't believe noone is taking advantage of a clear and pure water supply.. Sod this Evian stuff!!!!

Hi I lived in' Pine grove' for most of my time in England and no one has menstiond the fact that the' Tannery' on the corner of 'Well Lane'and Waterworks st, was there because of the water supply, and i seem to remeber that the enterance to the under ground cave, was some were in the grounds ,and that a boat was kept there i remeber that most of the tanks for the tanning were below ground level, and you could see into them thourgh the windows on ground level in Well lane,you could tell when Tanning was going on as it sure did' smell' i think there was about 6 tank in all, regards Anne

[Shaun]

So what actually caused the lake to disappear?

[daveowe]

Hi Shaun

The water is still there it is not a lake as such just a cavity in the rock strata that holds water. Read my earlier post. When the water is extracted it comes up the colour of rusty metal! it then has to be sand filtered, cleaned and chlorinated to remove bacteria to be fit to drink also pressurised with compressed air to move it through the water mains system, to and from resevoirs. If livestock graze close to a water well site the water cannot be extracted because the urine and bodily waste will seep down through the strata and contaminate the water source. The same applies if you have industrial chemical waste seeping into the ground, close to a water extraction site e.g. A tannery! as Anne has identified, would render it unfit for human consumption.
daveowe

[Shaun]

Cheers for that.. It's just that I heard that the whole Derby park lake simply disappeared overnight and was wondering how such a large body of water could go just like that..

[daveowe]

Regarding Derby Park Lake it was drained and filled in, the briges over the water can be seen filled underneath with rubble and topsoil. I think the reason was to deter kids from swimming, today health and safety would do that as a matter of fact anyway. daveowe

[Shaun]

Aha! Thanks for clearing that up.. I thought the ground must have caved in or something and the whole lot fell back into the water table or something..

Good point though, can imagine how many kids would get drownded in this day and age..

Shame though as it would have looked really nice

[ken]

We used to play in Derby Park as kids. We played cowboys and Indians in what we called the Black Hills - mostly cinders I seem to remember. But we also fished in the lake. You dug out little red worms put them on a length of cotton with a button tied on the end and fished for redbreasts - sticklebacks I know now. There were also snails in there. The tale was if one got on your hand it would drain all your blood out.

There was always a sort of raft moored on the island which was either side of the bridge that went over the lake. We could climb down onto the island easily and mess about on the raft. But you had to keep an eye out for Slyeye the parky. He used a little house built into the side of the hill a bit past the bandstand. A mate of mine put a sod on the chimney and he came out roaring! We ran like hell.....

I remember seeing the lake being drained - it took a few days and when there wasn't much water left you could see really big fish thrashing about - I didn't know till then that there were such big one in it.

Ken

[n3ttl3]

[/quote]There is a name I haven't heard in a long time! anyone know what happened to this chap? He was my head teacher a long time ago?[/quote]

Hi Piper Alpha

As far as I'm aware, Mr Mawhinney had retired before my eldest started at Roberts Infants in 1987. He left the photo album of when our year went to Skerries at the Infants with Miss Smith.

All the best

Annette

[ron waters]

KEN We played the same games in THE BLACK HILLS but I dont remember the cinders , what years are you talking about ? the years I remember playing there were in the middle 1940s , I also remember in the late 40s people would be entertained by a brass band and they would dance around the Bandstand .
Ron

[ken]

Ron,

It was the late Forties and the early Fifties - the metal railings were still sawn off so it was easy to get into the park. I did see a band playing once at the grandstand and there were people dancing round but never again. At the bottom of the steps there was a drinking fountain that worked in the Forties but it stopped and of course when you are a kid you never ask why.

We also went off to the park to catch "the Wild Man of Boneo" and to find the Colorado beetle because we'd heard you could get £5.00 for each one. Never happened...but the park was OK. We also tried every phone box on the way in case there was any money in it. You too?

Ken

[donegaldan]

i lived at number 5 well lane ,when they started the new estate behind us a huge hole appeared behind our wall,it took about six wagons of rubble to fill it in,the engineers was called bruce and hyslop, there is a two page spread in the echo (donkeys years ago) i read they said the water was tinted brown off the sandstone,i will get the full story to you asap

[Mary F]

I thought the "underground lake" was when the "subby" at the bottom of Bedford Road got flooded.

[Jan]

Hi MaryF,

The "Subby" in Bedford road still gets flooded, I wish the council would do something about it, I tried to go under there the other day, but with all the heavy rain we had the night before it was not possible, this happens very often!

Jan

[donegaldan]

Hi all

We were told in the juniors (by Mr Mawhinney) that there was an underground lake that was underneath (natch) Well lane and Water Street. He said that the water was said to rival the poshest bottled water at that time and was marketed as 'Bootle Water'.

Has anyone been (or know someone that has) down there and seen this lake? is it still there? Can you get down there? I have wanted to know this for donkey's years but not been able to find out. Anyone got any clues ?

Thanks

Annette

just got this info off my son,go to crosby library, or access it daily post 11th oct 1950
bootle times 13th oct 1950
10th &29th nov 1950
23rd march 1956
3rd dec 1992
24th dec 1992 crosby herald , happy hunting goes into great detail about the undergound lake etc

[bernie johno]

so as i said it is an urban legend

[Jan]

Map of Bootle 1851 showing the location of the Water Works.



Jan

[Bernie R]

King Tonka's made a video about the lake - I've posted it on the thread for his videos...

http://www.bootlehistory.co.uk/forum/vi ... 903#300903

Bern