Bootle Times News

Hi,

In the build up to WW1, the King's Liverpool Regiment territorial battalion for the area that is now Sefton was the 1/7th King's Liverpool Regiment. They trained at 99 Park Street in Bootle. I note that the current YMCA / Social Club has the address 97 Park Street. Looking at the design and age of the building I can't help but be tempted to think its the same building. Can anyone confirm that, or perhaps know something about the history of the building?

I have also read that at the declaration of WW1 the 1/7 Battalion were away on camp. I assume Wales somewhere but it would be nice to know the location if possible.

My interest is because two of my paternal grandfathers brothers, William and Walter Halsall, and my grandmothers brother, John Seddon, all trained there before the war, they were next door neighbours in Sefton Road. Sadly they were all killed in action in France.

Any help appreciated!

1911

1949

Peter the numbers change through the years the the ym was the former school
the barracks was at the end to hawthorne road
sure i had photo will look
bobhamo

7th Battalion King's (Liverpool) Regiment, was a unit of the Territorial Force which had its HQ at 99 Park Street, Bootle. It was made up of A to D (Bootle) Coys., E (Cosby) Coy., F (Bootle) Coy, G (Southport) Coy, H (Southport and Formby) Coy. It had a Cadet Corps, Southport Cadet Corps based at 60 Scarisbrick New Road, Southport. They were serving with Liverpool Brigade, West Lancashire Division when war broke out in August 1914. They proceeded to France on the 8th of March 1915, landing at Le Havre and joined 6th Brigade, 2nd Division. They saw action at The Battle of Festubert and The Battle of Loos. On the 4th of September 1915 they transferred to 5th Brigade still with 2nd Division then on the 15th of November 1915 they transferred to 22nd Brigade, 7th Division. On the 7th of January 1916 they joined 165th Brigade in the newly reformed 55th (West Lancashire) Division who were concentrating in the Hallencourt area. On the 16th of February 1916 the Division relieved the French 88th Division south of Arras, they moved to The Somme in late July taking over a section of front line near the village of Guillemont. They were in action at the The Battle of Guillemont, The Battle of Ginchy, The Battle of Flers-Courcelette and The Battle of Morval. The Division moved to Flanders in october 1916 and took over the front line between Wieltje and Railway Wood. In 1917 they were in action at Pilkem Ridge and Menin Road Ridge during the Third Battle of Ypres. They moved south to Cambrai where they suffered very heavily during the German Counter Attacks on the 30th of November 1917. In the Spring of 1918 they were in action in the Battle of the Lys including the Defence of Givenchy on the 9th to the 17th of April. In October they took part in the Final Advance in Artois. After the Armistice they were ordered to advance through Belgium and occupy the Rhine bridgeheads, but these orders were with drawn and the Division was demobilised in Brussels between January and April 1919. -
bobhamo

Thanks, Bob interesting information
All the churches had information on who had died in WW1 in Bootle
Thank you Bobhamo and PeterH
Hope you find more information Peter on this site.

Regards Bob. b

drill shed
bobhamo

That's absolutely tremendous, thank you. You've put in a good shift on my behalf there, and much appreciated. Its very interesting to see the life of a building over time, the different uses its put to. I can see now that the YMCA would have been a school, and sadly the 7th KLR Headquarters no longer exists, but nice to know where it was, especially as I spent my early life living a few streets away and never realising!

The photo is a massive bonus, I didn't see that coming. Its seems to be something of a forgotten building really.

Nothing equivalent I can offer back but if you are interested in the local regiments and their home communities in WW1 there is a very interesting piece of work on the link provided here http://eprints.worc.ac.uk/384/.

Its about the 7th KLR, which was made up of lads from Bootle, Litherland, Crosby, Formby, & Southport. They went to France together in WW1 and looks at how they were supported by home communities, reported in the press, etc. Very interesting, although I appreciate you might already have come across it!

Cheers

Pete

PeteH wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:12 pm Hi,

In the build up to WW1, the King's Liverpool Regiment territorial battalion for the area that is now Sefton was the 1/7th King's Liverpool Regiment. They trained at 99 Park Street in Bootle. I note that the current YMCA / Social Club has the address 97 Park Street. Looking at the design and age of the building I can't help but be tempted to think its the same building. Can anyone confirm that, or perhaps know something about the history of the building?

I have also read that at the declaration of WW1 the 1/7 Battalion were away on camp. I assume Wales somewhere but it would be nice to know the location if possible.

My interest is because two of my paternal grandfathers brothers, William and Walter Halsall, and my grandmothers brother, John Seddon, all trained there before the war, they were next door neighbours in Sefton Road. Sadly they were all killed in action in France.

Any help appreciated!

Is this Your John Seddon ?


L/Cpl 265584 John Seddon A Coy of 1/7th Liverpool Kings Regt.

Link to CWGC War Dead.

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casu ... don,-john/

For some unknown reason he does not appear on the online search of the Devereux Database of Liverpool Kings Regt at Pier Head but may if keyed in on the touch screen there.


https://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/mol ... index.aspx

Sgt Walter J Halsall 001261 of 1/7th Liverpool Kings killed 25/09/1916

CWGC site link


https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casu ... 61/halsall,-/


The Touch Screen Devereux Database of the Liverpool Kings Regt on the 1st Floor of the Museum of Liverpool Life at the Pier Head shows him as Sgt Walter J Halsall
there may be more pages on him and perhaps also a photo
but you can access it when physically keying his name in the screen.

L/Cpl William Halsall 001191 of 1 /7th Liverpool Kings 001191 killed 16/05/1915


His Service Number is one of the very early ones like Walter's so they were two very early Volunteers to join up in August 1914 and be sent abroad in March 1915 and hence be entitled to the 1914 Star


CWGC link

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casu ... ,-william/



Again William also appears on the Devereux Database of the Kings Regt at the Pier Head Museum so there may be more on him there.

Men of the 1/7th Liverpool Kings

Thanks very all that, very decent of you to take the time. I had picked up the cwgc sources, but not the Devereux database, it sounds really useful so I'll get myself along to the museum to see what they have got. Nice to know that they are remembered officially.

Another useful source has been the Merseyside Roll of honour website. http://www.merseysiderollofhonour.co.uk ... wgc=264161 There is an interesting newspaper report there about the death of Walter, second of two brothers. I understand that the original report is in Crosby Library so I'll pick that up there in the near future.

The most elusive aspect of their stories seems to be to determine the exact circumstances in which they died, perhaps that's hoping for too much. William's body was never recovered so in his case it seems likely that he was shot / blown to pieces at Festubert. It is well documented that in this battle the British artillery failed to make the expected impact on the German defenses (many shells failed to explode) so that the infantry advanced into a hail of bullet, shell etc and many of the resulting bodies were unrecognisable. Sefton's blackest day perhaps.

The photograph is a real bonus!

Thanks for your help,

Pete

Crosby Library has a Huge Volume of the BootleRoll of Honour
containing all the Newspaper Cuttings collectedc from all over on the Bootle Dead and awards.

Bootle War Memorial also worth a visit.

My Granddad having been in the Territorials was also in the 1/7th posted in March 1915 to France
wrote a letter to his Parents in Violet Rd April 1915
asking how his Pregnant Wife was with their 3rd Child asking was it a girl ?
Also asked if his Parents could ask Mr Hannah to get him home ?
His Parents were high up in ranking in Linacre Mission
and the only Hannah I can find in Bootle was a Vicar
Granddad had just moved home to 47 Elizabeth Road where his 2nd child was born in 1913 having left 25 Willard St where his 1st Child was born in 1911










Anyway Mr Hannah must have had some pull because in the 1st week of May 1915 Granddad just 4 weeks later he registered the Birth of his 3rd Child a son at 47 Elizabeth Rd = William Henry Chapman after his own Father.
Uncle Bill lived his life at 24 Church Street up the road opposite the Welsh Church were his Father in law preached.

The Jeudwine Papers at Liverpool Central Library 3rd Floor Archive Dept are worth ordering to view. Genie Max D on rootschat forum gave me the refs,

Here is a link


https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.p ... msg6158047

There are Three Volumes of the History of The Kings Regiment Liverpool in the Reference section on the 3rd floor of Liverpool Central Library




This page covers 16 May 1915 action of the 1/7th



You can see from these Two pages of 1/7th Casualties how many were also lost on 16/05/1915 with L/Cpl William Halsall

L/Cpl John Seddon died on 28/06/1916 with many comrades of 1/7th that day.

Sgt Walter Halsall died 25/09/1916 with many comrades of 1/7th that day.

Good info and research
bobhamo

That's absolutely brilliant information, thanks for going to all that trouble. I suppose we have the stories of these few men, but there must be many a family in the area who had relatives in the 1/7 KLR - as those lists you provided show. Its a shame so many are forgotten.That reference I posted earlier about the 1/7 KLR makes the point that in 1915 they were very much a unit of local lads but then that identity is diluted as the war proceeds due to casualties.

Now that I am retired I'll be able to spend a bit of time getting to the various libraries / museums that have been suggested and have a fascinating few hours working all of this out.

Someone was looking after your grandad, took him out of the line just before the carnage at Festubert, and good luck to him too!

Thanks again, and if I come up with anything of shared interest I'll post it.

Cheers

Pete

Granddad I am sure would have known William and I am sure would have been saddened as his loss when he returned to the line at the end of May 1915
I may have not have been here now writing this had he not been allowed leave for those two weeks that lost so many of his mates.

He was there for another 4 years till late 1919

Being awarded the MM for his action with the 1/7th on the Menin Road East of Ypres on 20/09/1917 that Day his Sister was marrying at Birkenhead Registry Office a Sgt Palmer of the 4 th Btn Liverpool Kings who was also awarded the MM for action in July 1917
11 weeks later she was a Widow he was shot by a Sniper while supervising a working party laying Duck Boards ready for the next weeks attack.



Wounded 1/7th on the Menin Road.

A tragic story indeed. You must be very proud of them. It just shows how most of our generation owe the fact that we are here to luck to a large extent. My grandfather on the Halsall / Seddon side was in a reserved occupation, and grandfather on my mum's side served in Suvla Bay / Gallipoli and then the Camel Corps in Palestine. He was in the 1/4th Cheshire Regiment. He had plenty of scrapes along the way, wounded at Suvla, taken prisoner in Palestine, escaped from captivity in Turkey. If at any point he hadn't made it none of our large family would be here!

Good tip about the Regimental History. I have just discovered that it is available to read on Google Books, free. The first volume is at the link given below.

Cheers

Pete


https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=cXO ... 02&f=false

Brilliant that it's now on line.

Have all 3 Volumes as my Retirement Gift from my EMPLOYER as 53 of 82 of us had to leave that day. 3500 Nationwide in my Dept.
So there wasn't anyone to contribute to my Leaving Present after 40 years service.

My was Granddad wasI think more than miffed that he had to return to France 20 years later after the Germans had regrouped in1939 and sadly he was evacuated at Dunkirk in May 1940

Must have thought why did I waste 5 years old my Life and see horrors beyond belief from 1914 and loose lots of mates for this?

Thanks for accepting me into this group
My Great Grandfather is mentioned in the pages displayed on this post, He is Pte Alfred Sutcliffe and he lost his life in September 1916 at the age of 36 during the Battle of Morval, he received gunshot wounds to his chest and sadly died the following day.
He was awarded the usual WW1 medals sadly lost over time.
The Family home was in Borland St in Bootle although non existent today I believe it was off Marsh Lane. I would love to see a photo of it but have been unable to find any yet.
Looking forward to reading all about the history on here

welcome Sooty :

Boreland st is where the markers are
pity the street dir have missed Boreland st built 1888
bobhamo

Thanks for the photo apologies for the Boreland spelling I have seen both Borland St and Boreland St on my trip round the internet !

Cheers

Thanks for the photo! Apologies for the spelling error—I've seen both Borland St and Boreland St online during my research. Appreciate the clarification!

Cheers!